I can empathize...

Okay,
It should be adapted to, Height is no more important than looks, if you're taller than the girl.

Yes, what really matters is whether you are taller than the woman.  I think this difference is about equal to 5 points on the looks scale.

I knew a good looking short guy that did very well with taller women, by the way.  Of course he had that ruthless personality that women love.

Okay,
Play psychologist for me (if you don't mind...)

Starting question:
If a girl likes a guy, and the guy likes the girl - is that all thats necessary? Or is it hopelessly naive?

Define "like".  And necessary for what (sex, relationship, etc.)?

In Spanish, there are different words for "like", for example "me gusta" and "me cai bien".  "Me gusta" means I like something in a physical way, so applied to people it means sexual attraction.  "Me cai bien" means I like someone's personality.  Spanish is certainly a less ambiguous language for dating.

fschmidt wrote

Define "like".  And necessary for what (sex, relationship, etc.)?

I was just thinking of my past chances again...so frankly I don't know what "like" is from their sides, because I didn't pursue. I think its pretty clear though, that, if anything, those girls wanted a relationship. Not just sex.

As for "like" from me, I would say I was simply confused. *Leaving other factors aside*, if they implicitly wanted a Long term Relationship, but they would be my first, seeing Im not a very good liar (even to myself), it does seem a little horrifying that I would be stuck with the girl, however pretty, for a long time/forever. Not to mention if they wanted a relationship with me, but would not choose me for just sex...that feels horrible too (they didn't seem like the type of girls who have had many sexual relationships or chased after some man exclusively for looks/short-term/one night stands, but the idea of "if they did" still stands). Or worse they would change their minds for a taller guy. The first had a 6'0 suitor, the third (most recent) 5'8.


The only reason I can even *think* about this stuff now is, for some reason, it hit me Im normal-ish in many parts of the world (probably those sex tour vids). Its not make or break anymore, but more like make or stumble badly.

Anyway, I feel I have a lot to think about.

fschmidt wrote

Yes, what really matters is whether you are taller than the woman.  I think this difference is about equal to 5 points on the looks scale.

I knew a good looking short guy that did very well with taller women, by the way.  Of course he had that ruthless personality that women love.

An addendum to that is often "...in heels".

I am short a 5'6", but I am still taller than most girls. However, most girls are taller than me...in heels. And that seems to be what counts more often than not.

I just had a thought.
I wonder how much of this has to do with having a high level of empathy.

When I was young I was the type that didn't like seeing fish suffocate when my father and his friends went fishing or to the fishmarket. I also had dark moralistic thoughts a lot, like what if our current happiness is owed to a evil dictator in the past that wiped out low IQ groups, can we justifiably be moralistic? et cetera.

In the same way, I instantly feel the rejection/abnegation/confusion, maybe even disgust, of others if they would see me with a taller woman, in my own head.

I can readily imagine a "bad boy" thinking the exact opposite (though I don't know if this would be real).

Thinking something like "Damn nigga, Im so cool I can pull these tall attractive women!"
A positive feeling instead of other peoples negative ones, indeed, perhaps even fed by others negative feelings.

Ardia wrote

If a girl likes a guy, and the guy likes the girl - is that all thats necessary? Or is it hopelessly naive?

So I guess the above post clarifies what I meant by the original (quoted) question.

3rd Year Uni started yesterday.
Started out OK. Lots of people (I hate crowds, and I hate people) but it was only mildly discomforting. Then while waiting for class, I see my crush and her boyfriend. Shes so beautiful, and something I can never have. My heartbeat instantly triples.

Saw her again in class, but it wasn't so bad.

Saw her today sitting almost alone in the hallway. I wanted to make sure it was her, so I walked out of the empty lab to get a glass of water, then walked backwards. She peeked up and back down as I was entering the lab. ~Sigh~ I think with a look of aversion.

But at the same time, its not so bad. Just feels a bit like a wasted life, but I dont care much.

There is no real point to this posting.

Seeing that theres quite a bent on thinking about evolution as a driving factor on this site, here are a few movies that illustrate bits of that thinking.

Moon

Imposter

Note: These movies aren't about evolution, nor encompass such thought. Just a fun romp that hits it at a tangent. And I love Sci-fi anyway...

Well,
The deed is done. I actually would like to share *all* the sordid details, but Im sure many would not be comfy with that (for parts, even me!)

Cost $250.
Her ad (anyone wants to see it, will have to PM me) said she was 5'5". I chose her because my third (current) oneitis/chance is 5'4.5" - 5'5". Even the first one was ~5'4". Im 5'2".

But she was 5'8"-5'9". Said her ad was incorrect. I guess thats something, anyway my second oneitis(?)/chance was 5'8" (though that one is complicated and we never met etc) so thats okay.

I told her it was my first time. Then we started. I couldn't get off because Im used to doing it to myself. After trying missionary and cowgirl...no luck, I gave her a massage..tried again...still no luck. Then a handjob...no luck....continued the handjob till I came (some details omitted). All through she made fake moans and stuff and kept her eyes closed most of the time.

She lied about the time...so I shouldn't have taken off my watch. She said there were 15 minutes left at one point, but when I left a while later there were ~15 minutes left. So I stayed 40-45 mins of a 60 min session.

: Shrugs : Newbie mistakes.

How do I feel?
Calm. Its not a huge difference, but an anxiety that I usually always have in the back of my head has receded.

The big question: If I had done this when my oneitis was throwing me signals, would I have been less inhibited and done something? (And if I had would I have a GF today or would it blow over because we were both uncomfortable with the height difference etc etc?)

My thinking is I would have been less inhibited enough to at least approach and talk to her. Then the ball would be in her court to keep me interested with exaggerated signs of acceptance. Not saying it would work even then for sure, but I think I would have at least taken the first step. This is also true for years and years ago with the first one!

My life could have taken an entirely different turn.

Another thing is its made me a little philosophical about my anxieties. What do I mean? Well, I am, more or less, only attracted to white girls who are taller than me (and had probably 3 chances with them). But I can see myself going to South Asia and getting a shorter wife. The idea doesn't appeal to me at all. But what I mean is it doesn't seem all that make or break anymore. More continuum-like.

This is definitely something I will do again. (Someday... because no money!  )

Amazing post. I'd like to congratulate you for doing something you felt would really help you. Seeing as this is something I plan to do some day, I have a few questions.

Where do you live? US? Europe? Asia?

I'm guessing this was an illegal prostitute (not a legalized one). If she was an illegal one, did you feel uncomfortable doing it for fear of being caught by police?

How did you find her? By word of mouth? Cruising the internet?

How did she react when you said it was your first time? Was she more comforting? Willing to walk you through the steps?

Where did you do it? Your place? Her place? A motel? I ask because I probably wouldn't trust one entering my own house. Not to mention I live with my father.

If you don't feel comfortable answering these questions, that's fine.

I'm glad it worked out, more or less.  I'm not familiar with prices these days, but $250 seems like a lot.  If you go again, I suggest looking for a prostitute who is from outside the femisphere to see the difference (latin or asian, and shouldn't speak English well).  The big difference is how they treat you, and this makes a big difference for sex.  (This should also cost a lot less.)  This may change your mind about the importance of racial looks.

You should read this thread on the nice-guy forum about another guy's first time that was much worse than yours.

drealm wrote

1)Where do you live? US? Europe? Asia?

Canada.

drealm wrote

2)I'm guessing this was an illegal prostitute (not a legalized one). If she was an illegal one, did you feel uncomfortable doing it for fear of being caught by police?

Prostitution is legal in Canada. Everything surrounding it is illegal. The old "its legal to lay down a water pipe, but illegal to dig a hole". For instance with street hookers, they get into the car before discussing anything - because that is private domain.

drealm wrote

3)How did you find her? By word of mouth? Cruising the internet?

There is a website called terb.ca, where they review prostitutes/escorts etc. That and the internet.

drealm wrote

4)How did she react when you said it was your first time? Was she more comforting? Willing to walk you through the steps?

Not really. Same bland polite attitude.

drealm wrote

5)Where did you do it? Your place? Her place? A motel? I ask because I probably wouldn't trust one entering my own house. Not to mention I live with my father.

A hotel. Nice one actually. I called the escort agency 3 hours before the rendezvous (there was actually a delay and had to postpone it for an hour). Then when I got to the hotel lobby, I called the agency again to get the room number.

I think (assuming you had the cash/time for it etc), after you have met her in a hotel, the next one (or one after that etc if you choose the same girl) you could do in the house. There are some reports where she and the john watch a movie together before getting down to the deed (though this could happen in a hotel too). Ofc, I don't know - seeing that it was my first time - I didn't question her in the hotel room about when the clock starts ticking etc.

The thing is to get the girl from an escort agency - she will usually have a reputation and future business to protect - so more trustable than say, craigslist.

Personally, I would prefer a hotel. More exciting to be in a new location etc.

Today in Uni, it seems my oneitis has gotten worse. Though it might have helped (or been neutral) if my oneitis was still throwing signals at me.

fschmidt wrote

I'm not familiar with prices these days, but $250 seems like a lot.

Craigslist is $200. Low end $180. Of course I do not know if this is negotiable. There are some older women cheaper, maybe <$150...not my bag.

fschmidt wrote

...This may change your mind about the importance of racial looks.

Though I may try it when I get the cash... the above sounds like a zero chance to me.

lovablenerd wrote

sarieas wrote

What would you do with a 1-4 woman? I probably wouldn't get a hard-on.

vegeta2 wrote

i have gotten horny off really ugly girls before

these are probably the best summation of the difference between LS and incel in one conversation block I've seen.

It is fortunate for the ugly ones that there are plenty of Vegetas in the world... but I have to side with Sarieas here.

Well ugly girls still have it extremely easy because:

1)  There are a lot of guys who have a fetish for ugly girls  (like vegeta2)
2)  There are a lot of guys who are just extremely desperate and will take an ugly girl (like me)

The same logic applies to obese girls.

*pats self on back*
Round 1

Just found it cute, so Im posting it here:

Mr.Anxious wrote

Hatian Fight Song wrote

 wrote:

NineInchNails wrote

 wrote:
The thing is, if society praised socially awkward guys, instead of making them feel like shit, maybe your argument would hold water. However, it IS partially based on society.

Society chooses the superheroes. We, unfortunately, fit the villains.

Why would society praise socially awkward people, though. It's not a desirable thing. That much is obvious to me.

Yeah, why praise people like Nikola Tesla? Fuck 'em. They can fuck off and die.

Round 2

Mr Anxious wrote

Hatian Fight Song wrote

 wrote:
Having some desirable traits does not dismiss other undesirable traits. Great athletes aren't praised for being unintelligent. Steven Hawking isn't praised for being crippled. Nicola Tesla is rightly praised for his scientific mind, but this is completely seperate from his social abilities.

His social problems made people think he was off his goddamn head, anyway.

Yeah, but if you condemned Hawking for being crippled, you'd look like an asshole. And appearances would not be deceiving in that case because it'd be true. And if you shouted to an athlete like a football player that he was a dumbass you'd probably end up in the hospital. And it'd be your fucking fault.

If you condemn a socially awkward guy for being socially awkward, however, (often made very difficult to get out of due to diseases like aspergers), people (and girls) just laugh along with you. I think that's fucking cruel and I don't care how unfair life is, it's just wrong.

Round 3

Hatian Fight Song wrote

 wrote:

ardia wrote

 wrote:
?
Are you unaware of the correlation between lack of social skills (introversion) and IQ?

Aiiii. This doesn't change anything, though. Do you know the correlation between shortness and being a good winger in football? This doesn't change anyway. Not all short people are good at football and not all introverts are geniuses. These are still undesirables traits for a human.

Round 4

How is introversion an undesirable trait? By what logic?

This is one possibility of mine. Anything that doesn't maintain society is an undesirable trait. Society is like a giant inter-generational organism.
We are cells in it.

Cells have a 'hormone' called 'extroversion' which commands the resources and priority of processing of other cells in intercell communication.

Some cells have more of the hormone than others. Up to some point (being able to communicate your needs etc) the extroversion hormone is necessary. After that its like a cancer, increased levels of that hormone in the cells that no longer contribute to the organism. they are neutral or negative in survival value.

Other cells are geared to respond to the cell that releases the most hormone first. Even if its detrimental to the whole. So you could argue that the cells with too much extroversion hormone are the problem.